Cross posted to the MRC's NewsBusters blog
On Friday's Amanpour & Co. on PBS and CNN International, host Christiane Amanpour held a discussion on the topic of whether some countries will use the pandemic to increase authoritarian powers, and the segment began with a discussion of President Donald Trump's behavior, with panelists likening him to authoritarian world leaders, and blaming him for many Americans distrusting the news media.
The PBS host set up the topic of discussion as she introduced the segment:
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR: Now, amid the battle against the coronavirus, the head of the United Nations has warned about a pandemic of misinformation, and reminds us all that facts and science must lead the way at all times. And, while many people are suffering from the health and economic devastation caused by coronavirus, some governments are seeing an opportunity to grab more power and erode fragile democracies.
After introducing The Atlantic's Anne Applebaum and David Rohde -- editor of the New Yorker online -- who wrote the book, Deep State, Amanpour began by asking for reaction to President Trump bizarre suggestion that disinfectant might be used to treat coronavirus patients.
When Applebaum got her turn, she asserted that President Trump has a history of using "disinformation" to undermine his opponents:
ANNE APPLEBAUM, THE ATLANTIC: ...Disinformation is a tactic, and it's one that Trump has used to great success in his political career, starting with using it against President Obama, accusing him of having been born outside the United States. It's also a tactic that many other leaders have used frequently and regularly as a way of distracting their populations -- as a way of dividing them -- and also as a way of undermining real news and undermining real facts so that when they are accused of being corrupt or when unflattering stories about them appear, all they have to do is say, "Oh, that's the fake news media -- we don't believe them."
She then asserted that the President is mimicking authoritarians in other countries, and blamed him for distrust in the news media:
APPLEBAUM: We've grown rather used to this in the United States, but of course this is a tactic used around the world by many leaders, you know, it's not just Trump alone. And, in many ways, it's Trump borrowing from the authoritarian playbook. It's the main tool that he's used, and he's borrowed it from President Putin. He's borrowed it from leaders of Turkey and other places. And now we're seeing what the real impact of it is, you know. In a terrible pandemic situation where we need facts and science, a part of the population is no longer willing to listen to real news.
Amanpour then went back to Rohde and asked him why he wrote his book, Deep State, about the government in the U.S., leading him to argue that the Trump administration undermines sources of information while he tries to take ore power:
ROHDE: Oh, it's extraordinary, For decades, it was just an obscure term, but since Trump took office, it's become part of the Trumpian lexicon -- a very commonly used term, and it appears in the news all the time. The President increasingly uses it. And I agree with Anne -- it's a very effective tool. Look, he -- and its about it's a simple playbook, President Trump discredits other sources of information -- rival sources of expertise and authority -- and then he simultaneously is making less and less transparence about what he is doing in his own White House, and it's working.
Below is a transcript of relevant portions of the Friday, April 24, Amanpour & Co. on PBS and CNN International:
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR: Now, amid the battle against the coronavirus, the head of the United Nations has warned about a pandemic of misinformation, and reminds us all that facts and science must lead the way at all times. And, while many people are suffering from the health and economic devastation caused by coronavirus, some governments are seeing an opportunity to grab more power and erode fragile democracies.
(…)
I mean, it really does seem the perfect opportunity to talk about what some countries, some governments are doing sort of under cover of coronavirus. Let me just ask you both what you make about Trump and disinfectant and the ongoing rumors and fake science and other things he's been dispersing from that all powerful bully pulpit in the White House. David, you in the U.S. and then we'll talk to Anne about how it's being viewed overseas.
[DAVID ROHDE, NEW YORKER ONLINE]
ANNE APPLEBAUM, THE ATLANTIC: ...Disinformation is a tactic, and it's one that Trump has used to great success in his political career, starting with using it against President Obama, accusing him of having been born outside the United States. It's also a tactic that many other leaders have used frequently and regularly as a way of distracting their populations -- as a way of dividing them -- and also as a way of undermining real news and undermining real facts so that when they are accused of being corrupt or when unflattering stories about them appear, all they have to do is say, "Oh, that's the fake news media -- we don't believe them."
We've grown rather used to this in the United States, but of course this is a tactic used around the world by many leaders, you know, it's not just Trump alone. And, in many ways, it's Trump borrowing from the authoritarian playbook. It's the main tool that he's used, and he's borrowed it from President Putin. He's borrowed it from leaders of Turkey and other places. And now we're seeing what the real impact of it is, you know. In a terrible pandemic situation where we need facts and science, a part of the population is no longer willing to listen to real news.
AMANPOUR: Let me just go back to David about his book, The Deep State, and then I want to come back to Anne about the central thesis of what we're trying to get to, and that is, you know, this sort of increasing grab and slouching towards authoritarianism. Your book, Deep State -- Anne mentioned, you know, what you've written and everybody knows … the news about Turkey, about Egypt, the military parallel government. Why did you feel the need, David, to write it about America today?
ROHDE: Oh, it's extraordinary, For decades, it was just an obscure term, but since Trump took office, it's become part of the Trumpian lexicon -- a very commonly used term, and it appears in the news all the time. The President increasingly uses it. And I agree with Anne -- it's a very effective tool. Look, he -- and its about it's a simple playbook, President Trump discredits other sources of information -- rival sources of expertise and authority -- and then he simultaneously is making less and less transparence about what he is doing in his own White House, and it's working.
You know, people make fun of his mental stability -- it's a clear strategy. He's incredibly good at staying on message and communicating, and so, you know, so "deep state" is essentially political rhetoric. It's a term that instantly discredits whomever he's declaring part of the deep state. He did the same thing with "witch hunt," which was a systemic effort to discredit the Mueller investigation, and he's done it with -- Anne said "fake news" to discredit the news media. And so it's a huge issue, and he has succeeded in using the "deep state" to discredit government officials who contradict or question him.