Cross posted to the MRC's NewsBusters blog
On Thursday's Amanpour & Co. on PBS and CNN International, during discussions of the grand jury decision not to charge three police officers for killing Louisville resident Breonna Taylor, host Christiane Amanpour was more aggressive in pressing CNN law enforcement analyst Charles Ramsey from the left than she was in challenging BLM founder Patrisse Cullors as she interviewed them separately in back-to-back segments.
After closing her interview with Cullors by asking, "Do you have any doubt that, had the races been reversed, there would be a different grand jury indictment?" she began her interview with Ramsey by asking him to respond to the same question.
Ramsey -- who is hardly a conservative but has been one of CNN's more balanced analysts on law enforcement issues -- argued that he agreed with the grand jury decision to charge one officer for firing into the wrong apartment while not charging in the death of Taylor because they had a legal search warrant authorizing them to be there.
[video:https://www.mrctv.org/node/553967 align:center]
Amanpour soon expressed concern that a total of 32 bullets were fired leading Ramsey to argue that the officers' actions firing into Taylor's apartment were still legal because they were acting in self-defense, although he did nave reservations about the number of bullets fired. The PBS host then jumped in to read a provocative tweet from race-obsessed CNN host W. Kamau Bell:
AMANPOUR: Well, it's not hard. It's not hard. I mean, I think everybody knows that 32 bullets in response to one is -- we can't even understand it. I mean, here's what W. Kamau Bell -- let me just, let me just read this to you and you can continue. W. Kamau Bell -- who has a program on CNN called the United Shades of America and does many other things in the public domain, has tweeted: "Brett Hankison was indicted for shooting into the apartment NEXT to Breonna Taylor and not for KILLING HER. He's fired for shooting into BREONNA TAYLOR's apartment & not for KILLING HER. This is systemic racism. Property is worth more than a Black woman."
She then sounded like a liberal activist as she added: "You can talk about the law in Kentucky, but the bottom line is, where is the justice, I guess -- a whole community is looking for justice after not just one killing, but decades of it -- no, hundreds of years of it?"
Ramsey was dismissive of her attempt to inject other racial issues from the past into a criminal case in the present as he began his response:
RAMSEY: Well, I mean, first of all, you have to look at this one case -- and I understand the history. I mean, I'm African American myself, and so I understand the history, and I've personally been effected by racism in my life and in my career, but focusing on this one case is what I'm really trying to do here. ...
This episode of Amanpour & Co. was sponsored by the Anderson Family Fund and the Strauss Family Foundation. You can fight back by letting advertisers know how you feel about them sponsoring such content.
Below is a transcript of relevant portions of the Thursday, September 24, Amanpour & Co. on PBS and CNN International:
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR: So we did see -- we've reported obviously about the protests that erupted -- I mean, by and large, peaceful, although there were these two officers who were shot. What do you want to see on the streets? I mean, they were shot, and we have to say they are in stable condition. They were not killed. What do you want to see if there's no doubt that the street protests have also energized people across the country and across the world to understand that a change is necessary somehow?
PATRISSE CULLORS, BLACK LIVES MATTER: Sure, I mean, our protests are the protests that speak for the people -- the people that felt neglected by a system and abused by a system. The Black Lives Matter Global Network Foundation calls for nonviolent protests. We call for protests that are challenging and pushing local government and national government. That is what the work that we've been doing for the last seven years and the work that we'll continue to do. It's our First Amendment right to speak up, to protest, to shout down white supremacy and to call out hypocrisy when we see it. So we're going to continue doing that -- we're going to continue doing it till we get our demands met.
AMANPOUR: You know, I was fascinated and slightly, you know, alarmed that in the runup to the announcement by the grand jury, what they were going to be doing, you know, the city of Louisville and maybe in other parts of the state had really, you know, they called a state of emergency -- they brought out the heavy vehicles and they closed off, you know, all of that sort of, kind of, protective anticipatory measures. They must have thought that something bad was going to happen. They must have known potentially what was going to come down the pike, and I just wonder how you react to what the attorney general closed his press conference yesterday, the appeal that he made to people. I'm just going to play this.
ATTORNEY GENERAL DANIEL CAMERON (R-KY): Mob justice is not justice. Justice sought by violence is not justice. It just becomes revenge. (editing jump) Our reaction to the truth today says what kind of society we want to be. Do we really want the truth? Or do we want a truth that fits our narrative?
AMANPOUR: What's your reaction to that, Patrisse Cullors?
[CULLORS]
You know, your movement has spent all this time demanding reforms -- whether it's police cameras -- I mean, you started, as everybody probably knows, after the acquittal of George Zimmermann for the shooting of Trayvon Martin. And, you know, there were lots of issues that you try to redress and try to get answered. Some of them, you know, have been addressed -- many have not. But I wonder if you can, you know, address the issue that happened in Louisville. There was so-called reform that led to targeting of this particular apartment. They had decided not to go into whole neighborhoods and, you know, fan out across the neighborhoods but go into where they considered to be specific locations, which is what happened with these deadly consequences. And so I guess there are people who will say, "Well, without reform, it's really bad, and, with reform, it can be really deadly." The same happened in Minnesota. There were meant to be reforms that had meant to be enacted before the murder of George Floyd.
[CULLORS]
(...)
Do you have any doubt -- finally -- do you have any doubt that, had the races been reversed, there would be a different grand jury indictment?
CULLORS: No doubt -- no doubt. If Breonna Taylor was a white woman in a white neighborhood, than all of those cops not only would be convicted -- they would never see the light of day.
(...)
AMANPOUR: And listening to all of this has been Charles Ramsey. He's the former Philadelphia police commissioner, and he agrees with the grand jury's decision not to indict the three officers for Breonna's death. ... So let me ask you: What's your reaction to the question I asked. Do you think -- are you in any doubt that, had the races been reversed, there would have been a different procedure and a different result from the grand jury?
[Charles Ramsey doubts the outcome would have been different, agrees with the decision based on the information released, but calls for more to be released to the public.]]
(...)
CHARLES RAMSEY, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: But the two officers that had a valid search warrant, neither officer was the affiant on the warrant -- they were there just to execute the search warrant. Once they were inside, they were fired upon -- they returned fire. It's tragic -- there's no question about it. It's not justifying killing or anything like that. The issue is whether there was a justification for the officers to use deadly force and return fire, and, in my opinion, yes, it was.
AMANPOUR; So let me ask you, as you say, the law in Kentucky says that they have the right to fire if fired upon, and Kenneth Walker -- her boyfriend -- admits that he fired first. He did not know they were cops, he said, as they came battering in, you know, before dawn. But I want to ask you this: There were 32 bullets fired in response to one bullet -- 32 bullets by three officers. Where is the proportionality in that? And why do we keep having to ask this same question over and over and over again? There is a problem -- it's disproportionate -- 32 bullets -- and in this case, and I'm really interested in your, you know, your law and order criminal justice opinion on this. Breonna Taylor is considered almost like a bystander. The fact that she was killed was not taken into account. And I want to understand your logic and how you would rationalize that kind of decision?
[Ramsey argues that the number of bullets fired was not a violation of criminal law but that it does sound like a large enough number that the chief of police should further look into it.]
RAMSEY: ...But I do know that once the officers were fired upon, they had every right to return fire. The question is, was it proportional? And that's a hard question to answer.
AMANPOUR: Well, it's not hard. It's not hard. I mean, I think everybody knows that 32 bullets in response to one is -- we can't even understand it. I mean, here's what W. Kamau Bell -- let me just, let me just read this to you and you can continue. W. Kamau Bell -- who has a program on CNN called the United Shades of America and does many other things in the public domain, has tweeted: "Brett Hankison was indicted for shooting into the apartment NEXT to Breonna Taylor and not for KILLING HER. He's fired for shooting into BREONNA TAYLOR's apartment & not for KILLING HER. This is systemic racism. Property is worth more than a Black woman."
You can talk about the law in Kentucky, but the bottom line is, where is the justice, I guess -- a whole community is looking for justice after not just one killing, but decades of it -- no, hundreds of years of it?
RAMSEY: Well, I mean, first of all, you have to look at this one case -- and I understand the history. I mean, I'm African American myself, and so I understand the history, and I've personally been effected by racism in my life and in my career, but focusing on this one case is what I'm really trying to do here. ...