Given Bud Light’s disastrous partnership with trans TikToker Dylan Mulvaney, the last thing I expected to write this summer was a defense of Anheuser-Busch heir Billy Busch – but here we are.
During a Friday interview with TMZ, Busch had expected a civil discussion on his latest book "Family Reins: The Extraordinary Rise and Epic Fall of an American Dynasty." When co-host Harvey Levin asked Busch for his thoughts about Bud Light’s marketing campaign, though, Busch took his interviewers by surprise.
“My ancestors would have rolled over in their graves,” Busch said. “They were very patriotic. They loved this country and what it stood for. They believed that transgenders, gays, that sort of thing, was all a very personal issue. They loved this country because it is a free country, and people are allowed to do what they want–but it was never meant to be on a beer can and never meant to be pushed in people’s faces. They would’ve never marketed their brands that way.”
At first, the tension was barely visible.
“What do you think of the reaction to that Instagram post, because the reaction was seismic?” Levin asked.
“I think people who drink beer are your common folk,” Busch responded. “I think they are the blue-collar workers who go out and work hard every single day, and the last thing they want pushed down their throats is a beer can with that kind of message on it. I just don’t think that’s what they’re looking for. They want their beer to be truly American, truly patriotic.”
Note that Busch never outright said transgenderism is morally wrong or that Americans should hate LGBTQIA+ people. He simply approached the issue from the a marketing and public decency standpoint. But that was offensive enough for Levin and his co-host Brad Appleton to shut him down.
“I’m sorry for stopping you – what’s the message?” Levin asked, in one of many interruptions. “I’m a little confused here. Why is it not American?”
“Listen, I’ve worked at distributor shifts and delivered to a lot of the gay bars and things like that, so it’s not that Bud Light isn’t inclusive with everybody,” Busch clarified. “I don’t think that’s the issue. I just think, for the majority of the drinkers out there, that to be advertising transgenderism on their beer is something they don’t want to be a part of. I think the majority who drink beer care about wholesome things, care about America, and believe that certain things in life should be kept private, and transgenderism is one of them.”
At the assertion that no one should shove woke propaganda down others’ throats, Levin began to lash out at Busch, declaring for the world that he was gay and “wondering” whether that should be kept private.
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“You don’t have to keep it private, but I don’t think you should advertise it on a beer can,” Busch replied. “Do you?”
“We just looked at Bud Light rainbow cans,” co-host Brad Appleton butted in. “I mean, the company advertised on there, and it seemed to be okay.”
Busch then asked what the co-hosts believed was the motivation behind the boycott. After Levin said prejudice was undeniably at fault, he started labeling Busch’s words as racist.
“Oh, absolutely, it’s prejudice!" Levin accused. "Look, I remember my dad telling me stories that there were bars in L.A. that used to have signs that said, ‘No dogs. No Jews.’ So there’s been a history of prejudice in the country. People get over certain things. It’s happened to Jews, it’s happened to black people, it’s happened to gay people, and it’s happening to transgender people. To me, it is absolutely prejudice.”
After the rant, Busch attempted to point out that he was not racist for sharing his beliefs, only for the hosts to argue with him about the importance of labeling transgenderism as an identity versus a sexual preference. Oddly enough, the argument occurred right when Busch was going to provide a logical analysis of the propaganda.
“There’s just such a small minority of people who are transgenders who want to change their sexual identity that it doesn’t make sense to put that on a very popular beer where most of the drinkers–99% of them–are straight people and don’t identify as something like that,” Busch said. “It just doesn’t make sense."
The interview ended with Levin blaming Busch for starting the whole conversation, then admitting that even though Levin had asked the Mulvaney question, it was Busch’s fault for saying the wrong answer and offending everyone.
Even though Busch had debated with respect and logic, Levin and Appleton decided to take the path of insults and interruptions. Another example of the sorry state of our modern media.
For a full transcription of the interview, please see below.
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LEVIN: “You must have strong opinions about the Dylan Mulvaney campaign.”
BUSCH: “My ancestors would have rolled over in their graves. They were very patriotic. They loved this country and what it stood for. They believed that transgenders, gays, that sort of thing, was all a very personal issue. They loved this country because it is a free country, and people are allowed to do what they want–but it was never meant to be on a beer can and never meant to be pushed in people’s faces. They would’ve never marketed their brands that way. As you know, A.B. was one of the greatest marketers ever in any business, and they were incredible with what they came out with–the Clydesdales, the frogs, the lizards, all the different promotions they had, all the different advertising they had. The last thing they would’ve done was to get as controversial as they did with the Dylan Mulvaney advertising.”
LEVIN: “What do you think of the reaction to that Instagram post, because the reaction was seismic?”
BUSCH: “I think people who drink beer are your common folk. I think they are the blue-collar workers who go out and work hard every single day, and the last thing they want pushed down their throats is a beer can with that kind of message on it. I just don’t think that’s what they’re looking for. They want their beer to be truly American, truly patriotic.”
LEVIN: “I’m sorry for stopping you–what’s the message? I’m a little confused here. Why is it not American?”
BUSCH: “I just don’t think the audience who drinks beer is into transgenders and that kind of advertising. I think people that drink beer are much more straight and blue-collar.”
LEVIN: “I can testify: there are gay bars all over Hollywood and Los Angeles that serve Bud Light beer.”
BUSCH: “Listen, I’ve worked at distributor shifts and delivered to a lot of the gay bars and things like that, so it’s not that Bud Light isn’t inclusive with everybody. I don’t think that’s the issue. I just think, for the majority of the drinkers out there, that to be advertising transgenderism on their beer is something they don’t want to be a part of. I think the majority who drink beer care about wholesome things, care about America, and believe that certain things in life should be kept private, and transgenderism is one of them.”
LEVIN: “Why? Why?”
BUSCH: “Why should that be kept private? Because—”
LEVIN: “I’m gay–and he’s gay. Should we keep that private?”
BUSCH: “You don’t have to keep it private, but I don’t think you should advertise it on a beer can. Do you? I mean, if I like–”
APPLETON: “We just looked at Bud Light rainbow cans. I mean, the company advertised on there, and it seemed to be okay.”
BUSCH: “I don’t know–why do you think that people are turning away and boycotting Bud Light now?”
LEVIN: “Prejudice.”
BUSCH: “You believe it’s prejudice?”
LEVIN: “Oh yeah. Absolutely. Oh, absolutely, it’s prejudice! Look, I remember my dad telling me stories that there were bars in L.A. that used to have signs that said, ‘No dogs. No Jews.’ So there’s been a history of prejudice in the country. People get over certain things. It’s happened to Jews, it’s happened to black people, it’s happened to gay people, and it’s happening to transgender people. To me, it is absolutely prejudice.”
BUSCH: “I think prejudice against Jews, against black people, those kinds of things is a totally different deal. I just happen to think that your sexual preferences are meant to stay private. When you talk about racism–”
LEVIN: “I gotta stop you for a second. Being a transgender person is not a sexual preference. That’s different from a sexual preference. It’s an identity.”
BUSCH: “Um–”
LEVIN: “That’s a fact.”
BUSCH: “I’m not sure that’s necessarily true.”
LEVIN: “If you look at a transgender person–for example, Caitlyn Jenner has said that it didn’t change her sexual preference because she became a woman. So being a transgender person is an identity and not a sexual preference.”
BUSCH: “There’s just such a small minority of people who are transgenders who want to change their sexual identity that it doesn’t make sense to put that on a very popular beer where most of the drinkers–99% of them–are straight people and don’t identify as something like that. It just doesn’t make sense. I don’t think it’s racism–”
LEVIN: “You’re getting confused–”
BUSCH: “I’m not getting confused, because I don’t think it’s racism–”
LEVIN: “You’re saying straight people. You don’t know whether a transgender person is straight or not. It’s not a sexual preference issue–and by the way, if it were, I’m not so sure why people should turn their backs on that–but this is not a sexual preference issue. It’s an identity issue.”
BUSCH: “Again, I think there’s just so few transgenders that to put that on beer cans is a bad move on the part of InBev. I really just think it’s a bad move, because I don’t think people understand or want to be involved in that notion that they’re drinking that beer because there’s a transgender person on there. It’s not because they don’t like transgenders. It’s not because they’re racist–”
LEVIN: “No no no–”
BUSCH: “It’s nothing like that–”
LEVIN: “No no no no no no. What you’re saying is that the majority of people don’t identify and don’t want it in their face–that’s prejudice. That’s what prejudice is.”
BUSCH: “I don’t agree with you–”
LEVIN: “That’s what prejudice is! It’s intolerance, and it’s saying, ‘I will turn my back on your beer if it’s supported by somebody I don’t like’! I mean–”
BUSCH: “I thought we were gonna talk about my book–”
LEVIN: “I do too!”
BUSCH: “But here we are talking about the politics of transgenderism and–”
LEVIN: “You opened the door, Billy!”
BUSCH: “No, you brought it up, actually. You brought it up–”
LEVIN: “I just asked you about it. I had no idea that you were gonna come out firing this way.”
BUSCH: “I happen to believe that the majority of people that drink Bud Light–or that used to drink Bud Light–do not identify with transgender people, not because they are prejudiced against that, but they look at it as a sexual orientation they don’t want to be a part of. So to me, it doesn’t make any sense that Bud Light would have advertised in that way. I just don’t think it makes any sense, and I think that’s one of the reasons there’s a boycott now. I don’t believe that it’s racism. I really don’t believe that what I’m saying is racist. I think–”
LEVIN: “I don’t think it’s racist. It’s just prejudiced. Look, we disagree on this, clearly. I didn’t know it was gonna go this way, but it did. So, look, thank you for the arguments.”
BUSCH: “Thank you. You made me think for sure, and it’s always good to be on with a couple of guys that are gonna make someone think, and I’m not gonna complain about that.”